Nepali Times Asian Paints
PRASHANT JHA
Plain Speaking
Indian insecurities


PRASHANT JHA


NEW DELHI‚Ä"During the middle to late 1980s, there was a sense of siege in India.

The Khalistan movement resulted in the assassination of one of the country's most powerful Prime Ministers ever, Indira Gandhi. Delhi had rigged the 1987 Jammu and Kashmir assembly elections, sowing the seeds of a separatist movement that, with Pakistani backing, has ravaged the state ever since.

The northeast was in turmoil and violence became an entrenched part of Assamese politics. The IPKF experiment in Sri Lanka had gone terribly wrong. Pakistan, with Chinese help, was developing nuclear capabilities. And despite some reforms the economy was in crisis, and foreign exchange reserves had almost run out.  All of this was taking place in the backdrop of a weak political centre in Delhi. Congress hegemony had broken down, newer caste alignments were taking shape, the Hindu right was gaining strength, and the era of coalition governments was in its nascent stage.

But as usual, defying all doomsday predictions, India not only survived but thrived in the 1990s and after. There were episodic issues, but the centre regained strength. Older parties came to terms with rising regional aspirations. Newer elites were accommodated. Communal riots occurred, but did not destroy the larger Hindu-Muslim equilibrium. Indo-Pakistan tensions persisted, and the Kashmir militancy grew, but India's unity held. In fact, between 2002-8, violence in Kashmir steadily dipped.

The left did warn that inequality was increasing, but economic reforms unleashed India's entrepreneurial energies and created a huge middle class. The world was forced to recognise India, and its growing political and economic might, on largely Delhi's terms. And from being hyphenated with Pakistan, India came to be spoken about in the same breath as China as future superpowers.

While Indian growth remains robust, the sense of being under siege is once again unmistakable in power corridors in the Indian capital. For four months now, street protests have rocked Kashmir. The administration's confused and then repressive handling of the situation has led to further alienation, which the separatist leadership has capitalised on.

Senior officials believe this is a passing phase, but outside observers say this is unprecedented. A new lot of young, radical leaders, many inspired by Islamism, have emerged. Even if the centre takes major steps like repealing draconian security legislations, a long-standing demand, it may not be enough to douse the anger.

The Naxal insurgency in central India is growing slowly, but systematically. The state's hard security approach has eliminated many top Maoist leaders. Politically, mainstream parties are trying to make inroads into the tribal belt and appropriate some Maoist issues. But security experts predict the violence will only increase, the Maoists will continue to have a fertile constituency as a result of inequitable state policies, and urban areas may be targeted.

In the northeast, the recent 68 day Manipur blockade was a reminder that many complex identity and resource related battles in the region remain unresolved.

Then there is the concern that another Mumbai-type attack is possible. The way events are unfolding in the Af-Pak theatre will have troubling implications for India.  A 'tough' home minister is on top of intelligence inputs and coordinating responses. Chinese assertiveness has become an increasing worry, with the prime minister for the first time hinting last week that India may need to respond.

Nepal often neglects this broader context. India is insecure, but paradoxically in some ways, it is also strong and belligerent. If there is an attack in its territory because of a lapse, deliberate or not, from Nepal's side, the security establishment will unleash its destructive potential. The first target will be closing the border, which will have enormous implications for our people and politics.

The Nepali state, for the sake of the Nepali people and the bilateral relationship, must be sensitive to Delhi's security concerns. Modernising security systems at the Kathmandu airport, strengthening the immigration systems, allowing sky marshals, and even considering the extradition treaty do not really erode our sovereignty. The real loss of sovereignty is when our politicians beg diplomats to support them to become the PM, or get used in games India plays in Nepal's internal politics.

The Nepali state's inefficiency and insensitivity is strengthening the Indian security hardline approach. If the Delhi hawks win, the Nepali people will lose.

SEE ALSO:

PUBLISHER'S NOTE
Interview with Indian Ambassador Rakesh Sood
Learning from Peru's transition, RAUL SCHIAPPA PIETRA



1. jange
And what exactly are these "security concerns"?

There is no way that Nepal can address a "security concern" that is undefined and unknown.

Not even the Indians know what their "security concerns" are, which is why Nepal can't address them.




2. who cares
security is two way concern. both countries have to respect each and other's concern.

are you sure you are a nepali, cause you do not see nepali security concern?

its delhi's haws who is behind all the troubled relation between two neighbours who are geographically, economically, socially, traditionally inseparable.

if the hawks get total control, it will effect india too. they may never become super power. 


first give respect which will give you right to expect respect. 


3. who cares
i agree with jange. 

4. Shahrukh
Prashant is advocating the Indian security concerns, undermining the Nepali sovereignty issues, which is sad.


5. jange
So, India feels insecure.

In order to feel secure from Nepal, (a neighbour that is 30 times smaller than itself) it encourages the murder, loot and extortion of Prachanda and his comrades in Nepal. The goons get into power which makes India feel even less secure- so it demands that Nepal address its "security concerns".

Of course Nepal can't do that. So, what will India do? Prashant Jha offers a hint:

"If there is an attack in its territory because of a lapse, deliberate or not, from Nepal's side, the security establishment will unleash its destructive potential. The first target will be closing the border, which will have enormous implications for our people and politics."

So, in the not too distant future we can expect a cross border attack from one of the many Tarai based armed groups. Or perhaps a "false flag" attack by India's own security apparatus.

Thanks for the warning, Mr. Jha.

But how will this make India more secure???

I can see the madness of it but not the method. Perhaps Mr. Jha will enlighten us.


6. Sandeep Dhungana
I have said this time and again: Prashant we need to plant a columnist like you for the Times of India that will worry about Nepal's multitude of concerns.

7. Abhinav
I agree with Prashant. Well written article.

8. Sarath G
All these hogwash about security concerns is a veil to confuse the westerners! It has given Indians a license to roughshod over entire neighbourhood. And look how its backfiring on their faces. Everyone is clamouring to be closer to China. India today has become a despicable country and no one in the region wants India to be a power of any sort. We would rather see China reach for the stars! 

9. sashi
Here we go again!  Prashan JhaJi writing about India's concerns and telling us to buckle up and kiss their ass or else face blockade and misery.  Is this his way of justifying all what India does in Nepal?  Disappointed.  


10. yam gurung

Why these colonised countries like India and others by the British wants to show their's Imperialistic attitude to their neigbouring countries,like Nepal and others.



11. Guinthe

Everything has to be reciprocal. True we have to be good neighbors but not when India cannot or rather will not regard Nepal's security concerns. Extrotions and kidnapping from Indian border towns, harborign Maoists fighters and leaders during decade long insurgency, free flow of arms and amunition from India are no secret to anyone. When Indian state is trying its best to keep Nepali state instable and boiling its hillariaous to expect a country in flux and full of instability addressing security concern of its big and strong neighbor before it addresses its own security.



12. jange
#10

Because they don't know any better and they are incapable of thinking for themselves. Maybe in a few generations this will change but that is of little comfort to us now.

The British didn't just colonise the land. More importantly they colonised the mind and that is much harder to cure. Physically driving the British out of India was the easy part.

In a way it is hard to blame the Indians. They are just reacting to their training.


13. Prakash Thapa
The Nepali state, for the sake of the Nepali people and the bilateral relationship, must be sensitive to Delhi's security concerns.

"Now if anyone is in confusion about where this person's loyalties reside, I will hang myself." Mr. Jha you better remember that we are a nation of proud nationality who would never ever kowtow the foreigners line, may it be India or China. But I am really concerned as to why are you so concerned about India's security?? Did you say anything when the Maoists were given shelter in and arms by India to finish off our nascent democracy with effective equillibrium between political parties and the monarchy???

your worries are symptomatic of your real loyalty. thanx god you could blow yourself so soon.


14. pyaphal
 u talk about kashmir......... all the front line indian army in jammu n kashmir are nepalese gorkha army.....n u talk about indian security???? we made indian secure by being on the front line of your war..............


15. Rajeev

I disagree with Sarath. Everyone is not trying to be closer to China. China has border issues with all its neighbours. It claims land with, Vietnam, Phillippines, Korea, Russia, Mongolia, India and you have ofcourse Tibet and so on. With Nepal, has anyone questioned Mount Everest. Before 1952 or Before china took Tibet, the whole peak of Mount Everest was part of Nepal. Now take a look at it, after the border demarcation during the 1960's, the peak now is halved. Half of the peak is considered inside Chinese territory and the other half on the Nepali side. Has anyone questioned, what happened????? .  How did the Chinese take half of it????? We talk about problems with India but believe me China is more problematic to its neighbours, just look at all other chinese neighbouring countries and their border problems. We Nepalese seems not to have problems because we have given them half of our biggest asset, peak of Mt. Everest. Stop and think, my friends.

Rajeev 



16. Gorkhe
It is my curiosity that how this publisher pays its employees? How much does this publisher generate the revenue from its publication? I really question the motivation of this publisher in Nepal? I think one can ask if this publisher get paid from the Lainchaur Darbar for its reporting.

Why this Prashanta Jha is advocating this: "The Nepali state, for the sake of the Nepali people and the bilateral relationship, must be sensitive to Delhi's security concerns. Modernising security systems at the Kathmandu airport, strengthening the immigration systems, allowing sky marshals, and even considering the extradition treaty do not really erode our sovereignty. The real loss of sovereignty is when our politicians beg diplomats to support them to become the PM, or get used in games India plays in Nepal's internal politics."

Are you Crazy Mr. Jha? Have you read or seen on TV last few years in India security problem in BOMBay, Bomb+ Bay, using bombs from bay side of India itself. Do not use your pretext to bring Indian Marshal in Nepal. If you are talking about chinese threats to India from Nepali side, India has a longer boarder with china than Nepal. Therefore, Nepal has nothing to so with China, and India problems. They both are neighborly to each other, hope they act in that way, leaving Nepal along.
Whose Sky Marshal, You are talking about? Nepali or Indian? Can you advocate that Nepali Mashal should be deployment if it is necessary to provide the security on the airlines? 
Non-sense.






17. Gorkhe
Let India closed the boarders with Nepal, they have done that in the past. They do anything to control small, and weak countries like Nepal. This is a well know fact. 

18. RSS

Indra will prevail over the C...

 

:Peace to all the nations!!!



19. Nepsidaisy
Nepal a Sovereign nation!!! What a joke? We neps are slaves to foreigners in our own country. Marwaris control all the business interest and Tibeteans run carpet factories that enslave the tamangs who work 18-20 hour days.  The open border is worse for us than for the Indians as all these Biharis and Bengali labors come over to work here. Whereas our boys and girls go to Saudi and Dubai to earn their keep. We should only allow Indians to come to work here on a labor permit with health check as it is done in Bhutan. Also control number of foreigner's who can work in our hotels, factories, shops etc. Prachanda is sleeping in his Rs. 130k bed and driving around in his 1 crore toyota prado is also a big joke. No one takes him seriously now and no one will follow him to the jungle. I don't think even the Chinese take him seriously. Once he got in power, he proved to be like any other pointy nose. Traitor to Nepal and the Nepalese.

20. bihari babu

Prashant Jha...Hopefully you are not related to VP Jha who took the oath in a foreign language. I don't think India would have allowed an Indian of Nepali origin to take an oath in Nepali in the Indian parliament.

Due to the Maoist we have to give a lot of heed to all these people in the terai. Also the porous border has led to a lot of the Indians getting Nepali citizens.

Nepal should give equal prominence to China. Look at how the Chinese helped destroy the Tamil militants in Sri Lanka and how they are providing big time aid to Bangladesh. That has forced India to provide over a $1 billion in soft loans and grants to the Banglas. India has ignored the North East and have relatively developed the rest of India. No comparisons to China who are leaps and bounds ahead in infrastructure such as roads, tunnels, fastest trains in the world, railways lines etc.

India only cares about its own interest. They are scared of China and their policies reflect that. They are a reactive bunch.



21. Madhav Nepal
Well written article but without adequate analysis. India's security paranoia has always been like this. It is not doubt Nepal will suffer because of Indian wrath, but this again will not be without consequence for the Indians either. I am sure the Indian leaders are wise enough not to repeat the earlier blockade which made all Nepalis very anti-Indian. The aspirations of the Indians to lead the region starts from their immediate neighborhood and their own backyard. Repression in their backyard and spitting venom upon their neighbors will only backfire and help the Chinese win in the rat race.
Indians have not loosen their grip over politics of Nepal since the Nehru times. If this has not made them feel safer, tightening it would be counterintuitive ... unless they go complete bonkers.


22. Arthur
"Modernising security systems at the Kathmandu airport, strengthening the immigration systems, allowing sky marshals, and even considering the extradition treaty do not really erode our sovereignty. The real loss of sovereignty is when our politicians beg diplomats to support them to become the PM, or get used in games India plays in Nepal's internal politics."

This conclusion seems quite reasonable.

The same people who beg India to support them against the Maoists naturally have to make loudmouthed "patriotic" noises about trivial matters like sky marshals.

When India stops helping such people stay in office and accepts the reality of  the largest party leading the government they will have less problems over trivial matters like sky marshals.




23. Mahesh

Well after Dabur scandal, Janaatha daily in its news portal reported that Sood and the company have invested 6 crore in some mainstream Nepali media to get Indian favoured writings and news. I can properly smell it here. If India has security concerns with Nepal, why cant it happen the otherway around. Like many cases of felony, murders and loots in Nepal mostly have an Indian national involved. The SSB terror in the border is well known to every Nepali residing there and the recent report published by the home ministry showed the involvement of MR Lalu prasad Yadav in helping the underground terai outfits. We are more terrorized by the military occupancy of Indians in Kalapani(have you ever been somewhere nearby there? Why are they still occupying Susta, security reasons?? The terror starts right from the lainchaur durbar, no where else.."see the death of Jamim shah". So Mr Prashant Jha, stop advocating the devil.

@ Arthur...well said.  



24. King
1.Nepal has open borderwith five states of India Sikkim, West Bangal, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh and Uttarakhand.. It is there from the historic times. We cannot close them now dueto various eeasons.  Yes we can at a great o price if we want.   India may  close them with barbed wires sometimes if we dom't address their some genuine  concerns.
2, Pakitani terrorists are entering India through Nepal. They are dealing in drugs and fake Indian currency.,smuggled through Nepal.They want to stop them; and this should be our concern too.
3.Why not go for our vital interest that lies with co-operation with India than waste all these years in the false sense of glory inspired by other foreign interests and the self-styled patriots.
Every country has its national interest and does not go by the false sense of glory.
5.I know my suggestion may not be palatable to many of my fellow patriot friends but it is a reality that will be of benefit to us. It is a bitter pill to swallow.
6.Why not go by our vital interest and develop our country instead of false sense of glory.



25. Sathya

People get the government they deserve. It is very easy to blame all what is wrong in Nepal on India. Atleast that is what Pakistan does. Every one looks after their own self interest. India will do what it needs to do to take care of its sensitivities and China will do what ever to take care of its sensitivities. People who blame all their ills on others are just plain stupid and lazy.

I just hope Nepal can work its differences with India and live peacefully. If not just close the border with India and invite China to help out. I am sure we new generation Indians don't mind Nepal bad mouthing India to gain some goodies from China.

 

Peace to all.

 



26. Saral Manandhar

I agree with Prashant on this and this does not mean me or prashant are not true Nepalis. I dont know about Prashant but I have never met any Indian embassy person in my whole life. Anything that happens in Nepal, India gets blamed for it. Sometimes think from their perspective also. They are spending god damn 6000 crores on various projects in this damn country (which are dear leaders are unable to provide), distributing scholarshipos, ambulances, school buses and what not just at a drop of a hat. The only thing they want in return is security concrens' which are genuine. We cant give them extradition treaty, we cant give them air marshals, we cant sign border maps (which i have heard are ready for signature and would avoid all this border encroachment nonsense after it is signed), we wont take initiatives to revise the 1950 treaty which India has said time and again would be signed as per Nepal's wishes and to top it all we cant even give them the god damn MRP project. On the other hand, we are ready to take everything with open arms and blame them for not doing enough.

We attack their companies, even arm twist them if they do not give enough advertisement (we all know that the Dabur;s allegation was not entirely false), give more contracts to china (recent report in republica) and then want the to invest more.

We believe an allegation from a parliamentarian aganst an indian diplomat knowing fully well the credibility of the said person. We keep on doing personal attacks to their Ambassador.

Just a food for thought. I will be ready to defend my case all the pseudo-patriots

 

 

 



27. Indian

Indian planes are hijacked form TIA. Fake Indian Notes is being pushed across border into India by ISI operating form Nepal. Chinese are setting up spying centres in Madhesh under garb of CSC, madarsas are blossoming along the terai with money coming form gulf, Indian maoists are being trained in Nepal, Murdereres and criminals from India run and seek shelter in Nepal √Į¬Ņ¬Ĺ and my dear Nepali friends ask what security concerns. Lovely. So much for¬†sensitivity.

It is clear that Nepal does not seek the good of India and deep in their hearts all Nepali wish India ill. It is psychological- the big guy -small guy syndrome. I really cannot do anything if yours is smaller. I feel sorry for you but god gave me a larger one.

Nepal does not want to allow Indian sky marshals in INDIAN planes. (while India has neven objected to having Nepali sky marshals in Nepali planes that operate form Indian airports.) Nepal stubbornly refuses to agree to an Extradition Treaty (and a Mutual Leagal Assiatance Treaty- hey Nepali log the word MUTUAL mean something to you.) under pressure form Pakistan. Nepal is not willing to listen to India on issue of passports when Nepali passports which allow the holder special rights in India are made out in the names of Bangladeshi.

But Nepal has no problem in sending 5 millon Nepali to work in India. Nepal has no problem taking millions of worth of assitance from India. The transit rights through India are Nepal's birth-rights while India's plea for security is interference. Wow. India's concerns are termed 'interference' and Indian companies are persecuted √Į¬Ņ¬Ĺ while at the same time Chinese money (in hydropower and for buying CA members) is welcomed. This janus like approach is the real face of Nepal. The idea is to take- from where ever, without giving anything in return, no even goodwill and gratitude.

All political streams in Nepal have been nutrurted in India. In 1947- the Congress and Communists sought shelter there, in 1950- the King sought shelter there, since 1960 the democrats sought shelter there, since 1996 the Maoists sought shelter there. India was responsible for the 1990 changes that led to first democracy here- no thanks were given. India helped end the 10 year insurgency- no thanks again, India was instrumental in supporting the democrats that finally led to the end of monarchy- no thanks yet again. You have to understand people of Nepal that India is a large country that has developed a political system that allows a plurality of political streams- and that all streams co-exisit. And given the long open border and cultural affinities between iNDia and Nepal it is natural that developments in Idnia would affect Nepal.

Nepal had great oppertunity to take advantage of the economic developments in India but we understand that you resent this too- that how a nation that you always thought inferior could do this, how a nation that you considered full of 'dhotis' achieve economic progress etc. It must rankle. But this is happening. You take great pleasure in the pains that India has. India has a long way to go before proving quality life to its people and each failure, each shortcoming is scrutinized in Nepal and potrayed by Nepali media as the looming end of India. But don't worry- we will somehow manage. Our great Nepali friends will not help us so we will do it on our own. [My advise to all Nepali who 'believe' that India cannot do much unless Nepal helps- keep a map of India and Nepal for a better perspective.

After reading the comments to this relatively more sensible article, there seems to be no option but for India to invade Nepal and put everyone out of their misery. This was asked for in 1950 and should have been done. Only then Nehru was a fool to believe that a small tiny country like Nepal would peacefully live with India - being sensitive to India's security while in turn it received the benefits of India's economy. But that has not happened. Nepali resent the fact that they are small and dependent on India. They are so sure that India will not invade and take them- and the are happy to play along with China for a false sense of hope (see what China did to Tibet).   Merger of Nepal with India is the only solution it will be good for India and it will be good for the million of poor Nepali as well. The English speaking Nepali Times reading people are anyway looking for an opportunity to move to US.

What was the size of Nepal's ceremonial army again?



28. who cares
to indian above,

#"Indian planes are hijacked..."

its is true that there are many who are playing with indian security, but nepal govt. are going too far (illegally) detain them to protect india. and still there is no such thing like fool proof. ...... but on the other hand, india give protection, shelter to known terrorist, criminals etc. so dont talk non sense just because your media have been lying to you. ........... and regarding indian maoist being trained in nepal... you are the only one who know about that. ....... its nepali maoist whom your govt. tagged terrorist, terrorist as per nepal govt. too at that time and still indian govt gave them shelter, protection. 


#"It is clear that Nepal does not seek the good of India..."

you are right and it will get worse if you dont change before its too late. and its you who are ashamed of being smaller, darker..... it is such a problem that in bollywood, you think just being fair is beautiful.... 



#"Nepal does not want to allow Indian sky marshals in INDIAN planes. (while India has neven objected to having Nepali sky ma........... "

who told you that everyone has problem with sky marshals in indian planes... but the problem is indians were never taught to follow rules. 

there is no such things like mutual between two countries with huge size, population differences. 

regarding passport, there are many nepalese migrant who use indian fake passport, so dont point your finger. 



# "But Nepal has no problem in sending 5 millon Nepali to work in.. .."

who gave you  the no. 5 million, you better ask him. 

its good that you know about transit right, if your govt. keep on messing on  transit, someday, you will face music on international court. 

about assistance, go and calculate, its india who get far more assistance from nepal in the form of water than nepal is getting from india. so learn to respect giver. 

chinese investment is non of your business. buying MP is still to be investigated. 


#"All political streams in Nepal have been nutrurted in India. In 1947- the Congress and Communists sought shelter there, in 1950- the King sought shelter there, since 1960 the democrats sought shelter there, since 1996 the Maoist....... " 

that is what we call political interference, giving shelter to terrorist, joining hand with all sides to create multi player so that you would be able to play around at your will. .... in many cases, if india would not have created problem, there would not have been problem in nepal. 


#"Nepal had great oppertunity to take advantage of the economic developments.............. "

that is just in theory. in reality, india is not letting nepal develop since ever. . .. india staying away enough would be great full for us.


#" .......... no option but for India to invade Nepal ............ "


let me present you with the possible scenario:

*first phage-
india closing boarder (illegal as per international law), motivate indian origins in nepal to rise against the govt. ...

in response, nepal will kick them out... nepal will be controlling flow of water i.e. release water at the time of rainy season and block during dry season and keep changing the course of the rivers. 


*second phase/judgement day-
india trying to invade nepal.

nepal's defence- hundreds of tunnels in the hills, missiles, long range artillery- indians will be like sitting ducks.

and dont be fooled that the conflict will be between just two countries. pakisthan, china, srilanka and many will join too, at least with their arsenal. ..... could start world war III.


*the next day-
indian states will be divided into countries. nepal will get land to sea.


so my friend- who is unable to become friend, dont be fooled by the size, appearance ...

due to yourr kind of mentality, you have already lost almost all of your neighbours, soon you will loose nepal too. 


bullying, threat only work in bollywood movie. bullies are taken as heroes only in india. this is real life. be practical. 



stop taking your victory over a tiny nation called pakistan (kargil) as bravery, achievement, victory. 






































29. steve
@ 27.

I agree with most of the things you have mentioned in your comment. I agree that not a single nepali looks in a perspective that you have put on. Every thing you have said is a bitter truth. However, I didn't like the way you put on the last para. The way you were writing above make me expect that you will be giving some advice for mutual cooperation and friendliness, but at the end you took the same path that all of the nepali's have problem with. You started acting like a big brother. This is the attitude that drives the foreign policy of India and which is helping in increasing anti india feelings in every nepali.
I hope you along with the Indian government change their attitude and approach with a more friendly behavior instead of this bossy one.


30. Budabaaje

Indian, I'm sure you'll get a long response from many others. All I want to say is a well-intentioned friend does NOT support a bloody, terrorist insurgency led by an extremist organization, namely Maoists, in their friend's country. As others have commented, the Indian government and secret service is responsible for raising and helping the Maoists and now creating a mess in our land. How would you feel if we surreptitiously helped your Indian Maoists? That's precisely what you've done. We all know this now and no matter how many media organizations you bribe, this fact of history is indelible from our minds.

Your plan was to raise the Maoists, get rid of the monarchy and make Nepal unstable so you can manipulate it to suit your interests.

This one act of sponsoring terrorism, and assisting in destroying our peace, annuls everything else you may have done for the good. In fact, this fact raises suspicions that you ever did anything with good intentions.

Let me make one final point. Maybe Pakis or others are using Nepal against India. But this is NOT with Nepali support. They were/are doing it under our noses. But you knowingly and intentionally supported and nurtured Maoist terrorists to make Nepal unstable. These two are wildly different things. Does it even require asking which one's worse?

As for invading Nepal, I say go ahead and do it. All your games are probably meant to 'build a case' for that very purpose anyway. Stop playing around like a sissy and just do it!

 



31. jange
Why is it OK for the Indian government to nurture the Maoists in Nepal but not to nurture their own Maoists?




32. Indian
All the remarks just point in one direction. Nepali are not willing to admit that they have problems. They just want to blame it on India. The Maoists were your people- and you voted them to power. Any one who is unhappy with life in Nepal has an easy outlet- blame India. And reading who cares just strengthens my belief that all Nepali think their country to be superior and are totally cut-off from reality. 'India will be divided and Nepal will have access to sea'- what a pipe dream.

Maoists are now the largest party in Nepal- YOU VOTED THEM TO POWER

People of Nepali origin in India- in Darjeeling etc HATE being identified with Nepal. 

Nepali IS a national language of India. Nepali speakers do take oath in Nepali in Indian Parliament. Try to replicate that.

India is the LARGEST provider of weapons TRAINING to Nepal ARMY and POLICE

You want to investigate clear taped voices when CHINESE are concerned but are quick to blame India for any imagined wrong

I asked and got a better estimate- there are 6 MILLION NEPALI working in India. 

So transit rights need to be governed by INTERNATIONAL LAW and water rights- rights of lower riparian countries are Nepal's 'gifts to India'. I say keep your water and drown in it. 

So are so much like Indians- it would be easy if you accept it rather than try to define being a Nepali as being different form India. I know that now there will be so many posts saying how Nepal is great and different from India. Go ahead make my day.

cheers





33. who cares
29. steve

you agree, may be because you are fed with one sided story by western media and indian media or you have personal interest. 


you have been told that mumbai was attacked by terrorist, terrorists could use nepal against india......... but those media do not report that indians are supplying small arms to terrorists, criminals in nepal, indian cops were arrested with fake nepali currency, drugs in nepal, india is sheltering terrorists who are terrorising nepalese.


may be you have read the news regarding US govt.'s publication that nepal could be used by terrorist, nepal is suffering from terrorism, criminal activities but they do not mention that its india who give shelter to those criminals, terrorists and its india who supply them with small arms. 

why?

cause, the report/ publication is politically motivated and its motivation is based on opportunity/threat factor and this message is directed to india.

opportunity: (the points in the report like nepal could be used by terrorists against india etc) US want to tell india that they know india is a victim of terror and they are ready to support india if india hold their tail.


threat: (nepal is suffering from terrorists, criminals) here US do not mention the involvement of indian, indians cause they just want to let india know that they know what is going on in nepal and who is behind these activities, and if india do not do what US tell them to do, they will use this ill activities of india to push india.



for west or any other super powers, countries like nepal are just expendable. 



my point is, nepal is doing its best to secure indian security but on the other hand, india is using terrorism, separatism, criminals to push nepal.










34. indian2

The idea of Kargil victory is Indian army propaganda. Even Pakistan claims to have won that mini war. So in reality no one really "won".

I like "Indian" comments because this guy lives in Nepal and probably owns one of the many shops in New Road and gets offended to be called a dhoti. I don't think it is derogatory term as people in India wear dhotis.

Your threat of invasion sounds like wishful thinking. Please do try to invade us. I think we will make the American experience in Vietnam look like cake walk.

Nepalese politicians have to grow enough balls to really take tough decisions. We need on dynamic person with enough charisma to rise up,  get done with the constitution and start working on Nepal. Don't worry about India. They are too busy with Kashmir and their own nagging problems.

 



35. who cares
o indian2, you sound more sensible than your brother indian. put some in his skull. 


and you indian, most of the nepalese accept the fact, unlike you. that is why only 30% voted for maoist. 




and dont get me wrong, i am just sketching possible nepal's response to indian ill approach. 





36. Budabaaje
Response to Indian #32:
 
"Maoists are now the largest party in Nepal- YOU VOTED THEM TO POWER"
=> But you NURTURED them and BROUGHT them to power.

People of Nepali origin in India- in Darjeeling etc HATE being identified with Nepal. 
=> That's just the view of a prejudiced Indian. Can't be verified. And anyway that probably shows the discrimination they face in India, which is why they feel bad about their origins.

Nepali IS a national language of India. Nepali speakers do take oath in Nepali in Indian Parliament. Try to replicate that.
=> That's true in Nepali parliament too. The question was whether the Indian PRESIDENT or Vice-Pres takes oath in other languages, including Nepali.

India is the LARGEST provider of weapons TRAINING to Nepal ARMY and POLICE
=> That's because you FORCE it on us. If we had the choice, we'd obtain them from the best Armies in the world. When we bought tanks from China you stomped the 1989 blockade on us. You also prevented Nepali Army from buying arms from Belgium during the insurgency. Instead you dumped your low-quality INSAS rifles, which you didn't want to use, on us. And that had terrible consequences in the Kalikot battle, where many Nepal Army soldiers died because the rifles malfunctioned!

You want to investigate clear taped voices when CHINESE are concerned but are quick to blame India for any imagined wrong.
=> Yes, it is a matter of grave concern when phones of political leaders are being tapped. There's a word for it and it's called ESPIONAGE. What else and who else are you taping? (I'm not defending Maoists or Mahara. They are wrong. But SO ARE YOU!)

I asked and got a better estimate- there are 6 MILLION NEPALI working in India. 
=> So what? You surround us on 3 sides. Give us access to Bangladesh, Bhutan, Pakistan. We'll go there too. We're compelled to come to India because we don't share border with anyone else. ...and there are Indians working in Nepal too.

So transit rights need to be governed by INTERNATIONAL LAW and water rights- rights of lower riparian countries are Nepal's 'gifts to India'. I say keep your water and drown in it. 
=> Water has to be governed by international law too. You're the ones breaking them by building dams close to the border and submerging even the little bit of plains land that we have!
 
Point is, if there is bad feeling in Nepal against India, there are reasons for it. You people thought monarchy was responsible for it. So you got these Maoists to get rid of it. But there is still anti-Indian feeling in Nepal. Get the message?!
 
Monarchy in Nepal was not the problem. THE PROBLEM LIES WITH YOU! You need to change YOUR attitude and policy towards Nepal. That's the real solution of the problem. Chew on that!


37. rajeev

As an Indian, I really don't care if Nepal develops all weather realtions with China. As an Independent country they have full rights to do that.

I have read in history books that Tibet was once a INDEPENDENT country. I guess India invaded it and swallowed it.



38. Bhaicha
Maximum Leader Comrade Prachanda should be congratulated for instructing his cadres to agitate and trying to halt works on Indian hudro-power projects. Our powewr should be used in the country itself; export is secondary. Our Supreme Leader will create jobs and industries and this power can then be used. save them till he comes to power. If he thinks that it can be sold to India then we will welcome his move otherwise no.
El Presidante knows best ,what is good and what is bad for us.
Viva Prachanda and the great party.


39. HINDU
All these tiny painful creatures like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan, Burma, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan were part of Bharatvarsha. They really have no business being independent. India will eventually have to bear the cost for these failed states. India should just amalgamate them like we did with Sikkim, Kashmir etc. I think eventually that will happen. It is just a matter of time. These smaller states will eventually collapse and would need to merge with India- for their own survival or else China will take them and make them another Tibet. Or else these smaller states would split into still smaller states 9which would not be a bad outcome but there may be too much violence). Let these smaller children have a vote to decide if they want to go to India or China. I think all of them want to come to Bharat and will come eventually. Jai Akhand Bharat.

40. Sargam

Yuk! This time around, comparatively an adequate wisdom to lift Nepal out of the moving sands, such as it is, she needs putting up a compelling political reinstatement in order to anchoring more and more on the conventional view toward her immediate neighbor India, which has been so far curtailed by the myopic environment in which most of the Nepalese have grown up, like those newly born frogs in a pond that go crazy when they see an ox for the first time so crisp and big, inclusive of those somewhat literate. Let us be good dancers so as to toe the line as such we do not need cursing the floor if we fall flat.

Simply put, the geographical location of Nepal largely contributed to this weird situation.

Because, except for Nepal's obsessional culture of kleptocracy, as if it were a legacy of the immediate past largely practiced by the new Samaritans called as politicos, this country could never emerge as a full-fledged and sovereign nation completely free of its movements. Thanks to the widespread ineptitude most of the Nepalese have grown up to be the mere drips to our great dismay. And they took a pounding in the scrum as an accumulating effect creating more and more hardships to adapt and adjust their rancorous, snide and frayed tempers to the fast changing outside world.

Let there be light. Is it so because it appeals to their baser instincts? Watch out, that's the way how for centuries folks were held in thrall!

Some of my compatriots must put a lid on the crazier outbursts in order to curve unwanted fuss because we ain't alone on earth where not all our capricious envies could be satisfied because we think that is our birthright, that ain't at all.

To that end, there ain't many stars aligned in our favor for possible environmental footprint. We have to accommodate ourselves with what we have and divvy up what nature has provided us as a gift. And the most important of them is the abundance of water sources which is also our lifeline treasure.

Still, without a favorable economic windfall and an intensive cooperation with our neighbors of the south and north, Nepal will remain a wretched country left at her own hubris and hypocrisy if that is what the populace in general have developed a liking for themselves and for their future.

If in case we blow it we ain't getting a second chance.



41. baloney

Rajeev says "I have read in history books that Tibet was once a INDEPENDENT country. I guess India invaded it and swallowed it."

I think you guys swallowed Sikkim in the early 1980s and not Tibet. So lets not go there.

FACTS: Indian builds 1500 km per year and built it over and over again while China does 15,000 kms per year. China had a successful Olympics while India has failed even before it gets the puny Commonwealth Games going. China's has the fastest trains at over 400 km/hr whereas you have the slowest train which are still functioning because the British established the train networks.  China has the 2nd largest Economy in the world and yet your paper, Time of India, claims that India is the 4th most powerful  nation through some inanane study done in the US. Try and get your house in order. You can't even tackle the Maoist who are fighting your "powerful" country with sticks and stones. Indians are known for big talk and less action.

And to counter Hindu who says all these small neighboring coutries should be part of India. I say Kashmir will become an independent country soon followed by Nagaland, Manipur, Gorkhaland,  Republic of West Bengal and finally PM Manmohan Singh will be the first elected president of Punjab and don't forget Lalu as King of Bihar and Mulayam as Emperor of UP, Bal Thackeray as CEO of the Island of Bombay, Raj Thackeray as King of Maratha, Modi as Ambani of  Gujurat. ...Rajnikant as Tamil Nadu and so on and so forth. We can counter "hindus" baloney with our own bunch of smoked beef baloney sandwich.

China's and India's geopolitical strategies in this region are the same. They want to be the dominant force in the region and influence it's small insignificant neighbors. Atleast get "swallowed" by the richer and more productive neighbor. And THAT would not be India.

 



42. Ram
Lookie lookie. Nationalists having a go at each other's throat in dirty basements of internet websites! They graduated from facebook groups onto youtube videos onto nepalitimes! What progress!

"Woot! I bet on who cares!"
"10,000 Rupees with the new Rupee symbol on Indian (or Hindu)!"

If both countries were ruled by sensible people, there would be one very important interest that both could agree on, "get rid of the crazies." ;)



43. prasnt
Simply great discussion. keep it up friends(& non-friends as well ). 

44. Surya
I painfully scrolled down all the comments, reading arguments and counter arguments. Must say, after all this, I love the way you have sensibly expressed your opinion, a pragmatic political poet!!! 


45. D G
We have to accept our geographical location. Our open bounder living for centuries.  Apart from the Brown Shahebs ,the rest of the people in India like us and we too like them. We are addicted to Indian movies and popular Mumbai songs.Many  people living in the southern bordering areas of ours  are related by marriage with the ones living south of our border.Open border is an opportunity , it should be taken as advantage ,not disadvantage.
We should know how to Tango with our neighbors,also China.
We are more envolved with the south than the north. In a family like situation , there is always a love- hate relation. There are somethings that are non-negotiable and some negotiable to both of us. Let us sort out this issue first;then things start working out one by one.
What are the vital  interests of India in Nepal and of Nepal with India  ;let us try to work out. Let us start with the common interest of both first. Let us create national consensus on them. If we are economically sound then we will have more bargaining power.We have to depend on Indian co-operation in many matters in terms of our developement issyes including transport.  Indian market must be open t o our products freely.
We can derive lot of benifit from the progress of two great power s on either side of our boundary . No use to harp on our past glory. We have to live with our present.
Let us prepare a road map and keepon improving it regularly without changing the coreprinciples and develope ourselves, our  nation and our country first and foremost.Let us set our house in order first.
It is better to light a single candle than to blame darkness. We cannot stop noise by shouting. Let us keep our hearts together but our tents apart.
"He abused me, he struck me, he overcame me,he robbed me  -in those who harbour such thoughts hatred will never cease.
In those who do not harbour such thoughts hatred will cease.
Not at any time are enmities appeased here through enmity but they are appeased through non-enmity. This is the eternal law. "-says the Buddha.
















46. Rajeev

Sikkim was not invaded. The people of sikkim chose to merge with India whereas HAN chinese marched into Tibet and swallowed it.

Next in line is Nepal..I think you are asking for it.



47. Rajeev

One of the posters said

"Atleast get "swallowed" by the richer and more productive neighbor. "

Wow!!! what a deathwish. Why don't you just ask experiences of Tibetans?



48. Arun

Hi guys

The debate is pretty interesting. And you can't miss the bonhomi between the characters here. It seems all of you have come to somebody's marriage and trying a discussion to while the away the time and digest after eating too much. Very much in Nepal-India style. Keep up guys. Have a nice time. Regards

 

 



49. jange
46. Rajeev

Sikkim was not invaded. The people of sikkim chose to merge with India whereas HAN chinese marched into Tibet and swallowed it.

Next in line is Nepal..I think you are asking for it.

As with Sikkim, one day India will also make us an offer we cannot refuse.




50. helboy
look people dont believe in whatever HINDU and baloney is saying as for mr HINDU(Alleged) thats not the way Indians think about Nepal. Nepal has always been an independent nation and we respect it to the depth of heart.My paernts have visited Pahsupati Nath and we revere the temple like anything. The cultural ties with Nepal is what is most important for us.We also want peace in a country so close to us both culturally and geographically.And as for Mr Baloney well you sound like mouthpiece of china whose aim is to balakanise the India Republic.So better f**o** you our policies are more acceptble to people round the world.See you had to invade Tibet to annexe it and for us Sikkim joined the Indian union.That speaks about humane nature about our policy.AS for your intervention in Nepal Nepali people must look at human rights record of China,Tibet,Ugihar,Tianmmen Square.ALL I CAN SAY IS CHINESE INTERVENTION in Nepal wont bring any good to the country and as our revered ramdev says self reliance is the best and most respecteble option.Accept us as our policies have always been human centric not imperialistic.Jai Hind AND Jai Nepal OUR TIES ARE UNBREAKABLE


51. Prakash
Nepalese, when you stop blaming others and start believing in you,  you will realise that you have potential to be one of the richest countries in the world. But if you want to keep hating India,  one day Nepal will be a place like Pakistan. A common Indian just loves Nepal so don't get misguided by Maoists say.


52. Arun
Hi, there are too many mentions of China vis a vis India. China is a good country as long as people perceive it that way. With respect to India also, China has been more mature than say Pakistan. Growing trade ties between the two countries and buddhist way of living and thinking will bring the two countries closer in times to come when both vie to attract world attention. I think both China and India look at each other with admiration and doubut. As people to people contact grows, the doubts will go in the background and admiration for each other will take over. Nepal sandwiched between the two towering nations is struggling to find an identity similar to India or China. But Nepal is the country of Mt Everest and Gautam Buddha. So, Nepal does not need to struggle for an identity. The world knows it alrady. Regards

53. Roger Adhikari
Prashant is right in general, about India's overall concern on the issue of security. Nepal must do whatever it can to help India fight security battle, however, without compromising its independence and sovereignty. 

Having said that, as commented by someone in this thread,  India can't simply ask Nepal, a country fighting its own security problem which also lacks expertise and resource, without specifying what must Nepal do to help India and how?



54. Bir Bahadur Tamang

I agree with Prashant Jha that Nepal must be sensitive to India's security concerns. We breath India, wear Indians and worship India. Many of our famous castes (like Rana, Koirala, Dixit, Pandey, Bistha, Lohani, Singh, Shah, etc., came from India and directly related to India.

I was distressed to read the newitem about the Nepali Maoists training Indian Maoists with the support of another country's group. If it is true, then India must come out with a proof so that Nepalis can know what the Nepali Maoists are doing. Nepal MUST not be allowed to be a breeding or training ground for any type of terrorists. However, if the news is only a propoganda and there is no proof of it, then it could be said as not being sensitive to Nepal. I do not think a right minged Nepali would want to see the Maoists training the rebeles of another country.

A great majority of Nepalis want to live in peace and let others live in peace.

 



55. suraj

For how long we Nepalese will be concerned and fear about India's security. If somebody is using the Nepalese soil to ignite India against Nepal, and those bloddy assholes in Indian south block are making those propogandas, just to scare our people in Nepal.

Its the high time that we take serious steps politically and move ahead with some high level political solutions.

we cant fight with India and we shouldnot miss out China's support at hard times.

So we must remain Neutral and treat two neighbours equally without any propagandas and vested interests.

 



LATEST ISSUE
638
(11 JAN 2013 - 17 JAN 2013)


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